Anyone having any medical procedure that requires anesthetic and has to sign a consent form must add an addendum that they are not to be given any inoculation other than that specifically required for the procedure, such as the administration of the anesthetic via intravenous. This document must then be signed by the surgeon or doctor who will be performing the procedure and who is in control of the medical intervention during the operation and post op. If the patient should then discover that they have been inoculated against their written and spoken wishes then justice must prevail one way or the other. This sounds like a new legal niche for lawyers to get involved with to protect unconscious patients. It is the patient signed consent form that probably legally allows for this immoral and egregious type of action. It is a short step ethically to the organ harvesting done under similar circumstances in places where morality does not exist.
Funny how you don't talk about the fact they need to obtain consent and that Sedation should not be used as a measure to enforce compliance with vaccination requirements.
I believe the vaccine is poison and I know the virus story is only a story and has as much ground in reality as a unicorn but this is designed to scare people, I've read heaps of articles like this and when you share them and scare ppl you do exactly what they want. Everything is based around consent as everything is contract and agreement, the ppl running the pandemic understand karmic laws and that's why they coerce us into hurting ourselves instead of holding us down so to speak. Completely agree with the comment below.
Information describing how people wanting a vaccine but are unable due to anxiety can safety get one. It’s opportunistic because it saves patients having to be sedated twice. That word isn’t always negative, particularly in a medical context.
There’s no evidence AT ALL that people are having vaccines administered ‘opportunistically’ against their will. Please stop causing harm by spreading misinformation.
Isn't it strange how two people can read the same thing and have a completely different take on it? In no way did I see anywhere that this is a method of administering vaccines to someone who wanted them but couldn't get them due to anxiety. If that was actually mentioned in the advice, please point it out to me.
Also, in the first section of the advice, they discuss sedating someone specifically for the purpose of vaccinating them - not performing this procedure whilst a surgery is already planned so you are not correct in what you say. It is only in the second section that opportunistic vaccination whilst surgery is taking place is discussed.
For the nearly 30 years that I have been helping to inform people of their rights regarding informed choice, I have had many, many instances where people have had their children vaccinated without their knowledge or permission. So the idea that this could happen here is not simply guesswork - doctors have form and there are far too many who seem to believe that their opinions are more important than those of the person standing in front of them.
So if anyone is spreading harm or misinformation, it is not me. I believe that anxiety about vaccines - especially the COVID jab - is warranted due to the lack of evidence of either safety or efficacy and forcing someone to take something they are that fearful of is medical malpractice - not healthcare. We can agree to disagree on those points, but I do not believe that there is any misinformation in my post. Please feel free to point out any instances where you think I have misinformed anyone here.
You didn't read it properly if you didn't see anywhere that mentioned this being a means to vaccinate people with anxiety because they do mention that many times on the first page.
"Possible indications for sedation include people with severe anxiety or needle-phobia and developmental or behavioural
disorders, where non-pharmacological measures to facilitate vaccination have been exhausted. The choice of sedative
agent and the degree of sedation required will need to be determined on a case-by-case basis"
Do you really think that they would state in their advice that this is a way to vaccinate those who refuse the jab? They wouldn't dream of it! I think you are being a bit naive. I have already been contacted by people whose relatives were jabbed during surgery without their knowledge or permission. It is happening in the real world and this advice is all the excuse certain less-than-ethical medicos needed.
I read that ATAGI sedation advice sheet months ago with horror. Then again, I've not liked ATAGI for some years now! They mostly just do what they want without taking into consideration the proper science. I don't bother writing to them anymore because they don't listen to me anyway.
They've used the word "opportunistic" too many times, they admit there are NO best practice guidelines regarding vaccination under sedation (yet this procedure is happening in the community!), there are too many uses of the word "potential" (ie they don't know the answer because they haven't done the studies), especially in relation to an increase in adverse reactions, and overall, I found the ATAGI advice totally creepy, unscientific and downright dangerous.
I wouldn't trust ANY injection from ANY medical person these days, so I most certainly won't be getting sedated! That's how much my trust has gone out the window the last 2 years due to the actual science showing one thing, and the complete opposite being peddled by the govt and the media and the medicos.
I’ve just read the advice again and stand by my original point.
‘Informed consent must be obtained prior to each dose from the patient themselves, or, where the patient
does not have capacity to give consent, from the parent, guardian or substitute decision-maker. Sedation should not be
used as a measure to enforce compliance with vaccination requirements.
Your point ‘This is serious - it is the end of informed choice and basically means that our medical authorities have determined that whilst you are under sedation, they can do anything they want to you without your knowledge or permission’ is not factual, nor is it backed by any actual evidence. I can’t speak to your lived experience of seeing happen to children, but the gov info you’ve shared is certainly not proof as your point above implies.
Also your comment- ‘Well, I’m sorry, but for myself and my family, that isn’t just the way it goes. The way it should go is that you need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that something is safe and effective before recommending it to everyone for use and most assuredly before ever trying to mandate its use!’
Nothing is without risk and in a perfect world I would completely agree with you! But responding in real time to an evolving situation is not exactly a perfect world environment. In this context proving beyond a shadow of a doubt is impossible.
We all want what’s best for our special people, I have no doubt that’s what drives your passion in this area, your fight. You’d do anything to keep them safe. Deep down everyone kinda wishes that everyone else was vaccinated so they don’t have to be. It is a little bit scary. Information such as the stuff contained on this site and in your post speaks to our biggest fears, that something will happen to our families. That’s why it’s effective. That’s why it’s dangerous.
Again, I don’t dispute that there is some risk associated with vaccines. But at least own the fact that the majority of other families have protected yours by taking on that minuscule risk. Countless families have buffered yours from danger. You’re very welcome. While we’re appreciating things and people here, you might also want to consider how fortunate you are to live somewhere where you’re able to hold and peddle these dangerous ideas. Somewhere that will do everything it can to help your family should they fall ill as a result of them. The same medical professionals and scientists you seek to discredit will try without prejudice to provide you care. This is not a privilege afforded to much of the world
"But at least own the fact that the majority of other families have protected yours by taking on that minuscule risk. Countless families have buffered yours from danger. You’re very welcome."
Maybe you should "own the fact" that these injections do not prevent infection or transmission, and in fact are showing NEGATIVE efficacy. The vaccinated are more likely to be infected and reinfected. So your moral high ground is just a sinking pile of steamy cowpies, and your immunity is suppressed. You are a greater risk for contracting and transmitting the virus than any unvaccinated person. So thanks for nothing.
And the risk is much, much greater than you seem to think. You don't realize it yet, but more and more long-term complications are being discovered by the day.
Anyone having any medical procedure that requires anesthetic and has to sign a consent form must add an addendum that they are not to be given any inoculation other than that specifically required for the procedure, such as the administration of the anesthetic via intravenous. This document must then be signed by the surgeon or doctor who will be performing the procedure and who is in control of the medical intervention during the operation and post op. If the patient should then discover that they have been inoculated against their written and spoken wishes then justice must prevail one way or the other. This sounds like a new legal niche for lawyers to get involved with to protect unconscious patients. It is the patient signed consent form that probably legally allows for this immoral and egregious type of action. It is a short step ethically to the organ harvesting done under similar circumstances in places where morality does not exist.
I have only one thing to say here - Nuremberg 2.0.
people need to go to prison or the trust of the Aussie public is lost forever.
Trust has already been destroyed, but if accountability is not enforced, it will never be regained.
Funny how you don't talk about the fact they need to obtain consent and that Sedation should not be used as a measure to enforce compliance with vaccination requirements.
I believe the vaccine is poison and I know the virus story is only a story and has as much ground in reality as a unicorn but this is designed to scare people, I've read heaps of articles like this and when you share them and scare ppl you do exactly what they want. Everything is based around consent as everything is contract and agreement, the ppl running the pandemic understand karmic laws and that's why they coerce us into hurting ourselves instead of holding us down so to speak. Completely agree with the comment below.
Information describing how people wanting a vaccine but are unable due to anxiety can safety get one. It’s opportunistic because it saves patients having to be sedated twice. That word isn’t always negative, particularly in a medical context.
There’s no evidence AT ALL that people are having vaccines administered ‘opportunistically’ against their will. Please stop causing harm by spreading misinformation.
You need to open your eyes . It’s not misinformation it’s the truth but some people have no brain and don’t believe .
It seems to me you are ZERO INFORMED!!!
Isn't it strange how two people can read the same thing and have a completely different take on it? In no way did I see anywhere that this is a method of administering vaccines to someone who wanted them but couldn't get them due to anxiety. If that was actually mentioned in the advice, please point it out to me.
Also, in the first section of the advice, they discuss sedating someone specifically for the purpose of vaccinating them - not performing this procedure whilst a surgery is already planned so you are not correct in what you say. It is only in the second section that opportunistic vaccination whilst surgery is taking place is discussed.
For the nearly 30 years that I have been helping to inform people of their rights regarding informed choice, I have had many, many instances where people have had their children vaccinated without their knowledge or permission. So the idea that this could happen here is not simply guesswork - doctors have form and there are far too many who seem to believe that their opinions are more important than those of the person standing in front of them.
So if anyone is spreading harm or misinformation, it is not me. I believe that anxiety about vaccines - especially the COVID jab - is warranted due to the lack of evidence of either safety or efficacy and forcing someone to take something they are that fearful of is medical malpractice - not healthcare. We can agree to disagree on those points, but I do not believe that there is any misinformation in my post. Please feel free to point out any instances where you think I have misinformed anyone here.
You didn't read it properly if you didn't see anywhere that mentioned this being a means to vaccinate people with anxiety because they do mention that many times on the first page.
"Possible indications for sedation include people with severe anxiety or needle-phobia and developmental or behavioural
disorders, where non-pharmacological measures to facilitate vaccination have been exhausted. The choice of sedative
agent and the degree of sedation required will need to be determined on a case-by-case basis"
Do you really think that they would state in their advice that this is a way to vaccinate those who refuse the jab? They wouldn't dream of it! I think you are being a bit naive. I have already been contacted by people whose relatives were jabbed during surgery without their knowledge or permission. It is happening in the real world and this advice is all the excuse certain less-than-ethical medicos needed.
I read that ATAGI sedation advice sheet months ago with horror. Then again, I've not liked ATAGI for some years now! They mostly just do what they want without taking into consideration the proper science. I don't bother writing to them anymore because they don't listen to me anyway.
They've used the word "opportunistic" too many times, they admit there are NO best practice guidelines regarding vaccination under sedation (yet this procedure is happening in the community!), there are too many uses of the word "potential" (ie they don't know the answer because they haven't done the studies), especially in relation to an increase in adverse reactions, and overall, I found the ATAGI advice totally creepy, unscientific and downright dangerous.
I wouldn't trust ANY injection from ANY medical person these days, so I most certainly won't be getting sedated! That's how much my trust has gone out the window the last 2 years due to the actual science showing one thing, and the complete opposite being peddled by the govt and the media and the medicos.
I’ve just read the advice again and stand by my original point.
‘Informed consent must be obtained prior to each dose from the patient themselves, or, where the patient
does not have capacity to give consent, from the parent, guardian or substitute decision-maker. Sedation should not be
used as a measure to enforce compliance with vaccination requirements.
Your point ‘This is serious - it is the end of informed choice and basically means that our medical authorities have determined that whilst you are under sedation, they can do anything they want to you without your knowledge or permission’ is not factual, nor is it backed by any actual evidence. I can’t speak to your lived experience of seeing happen to children, but the gov info you’ve shared is certainly not proof as your point above implies.
Also your comment- ‘Well, I’m sorry, but for myself and my family, that isn’t just the way it goes. The way it should go is that you need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that something is safe and effective before recommending it to everyone for use and most assuredly before ever trying to mandate its use!’
Nothing is without risk and in a perfect world I would completely agree with you! But responding in real time to an evolving situation is not exactly a perfect world environment. In this context proving beyond a shadow of a doubt is impossible.
We all want what’s best for our special people, I have no doubt that’s what drives your passion in this area, your fight. You’d do anything to keep them safe. Deep down everyone kinda wishes that everyone else was vaccinated so they don’t have to be. It is a little bit scary. Information such as the stuff contained on this site and in your post speaks to our biggest fears, that something will happen to our families. That’s why it’s effective. That’s why it’s dangerous.
Again, I don’t dispute that there is some risk associated with vaccines. But at least own the fact that the majority of other families have protected yours by taking on that minuscule risk. Countless families have buffered yours from danger. You’re very welcome. While we’re appreciating things and people here, you might also want to consider how fortunate you are to live somewhere where you’re able to hold and peddle these dangerous ideas. Somewhere that will do everything it can to help your family should they fall ill as a result of them. The same medical professionals and scientists you seek to discredit will try without prejudice to provide you care. This is not a privilege afforded to much of the world
"But at least own the fact that the majority of other families have protected yours by taking on that minuscule risk. Countless families have buffered yours from danger. You’re very welcome."
Maybe you should "own the fact" that these injections do not prevent infection or transmission, and in fact are showing NEGATIVE efficacy. The vaccinated are more likely to be infected and reinfected. So your moral high ground is just a sinking pile of steamy cowpies, and your immunity is suppressed. You are a greater risk for contracting and transmitting the virus than any unvaccinated person. So thanks for nothing.
And the risk is much, much greater than you seem to think. You don't realize it yet, but more and more long-term complications are being discovered by the day.
Your post above confirms to me that you are not in a space that allows you to hear the science.
Absolutely abominable!!! How dare they !!!
They dare because they have been allowed to get away with it! It's time to stop enabling this sort of treatment of helpless people.
ATAGI & APHRA both need to be stopped from this sort of overreach! I shall be writing again to the Health Ombudsman both state & federal!